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Response:

Calculated Shard: 169 (from laksa167)

2. Crawled Status Check

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curl -X POST \
  'http://laksa169.int.ahrefs:8124/' \
  -H 'Content-Type: text/plain' \
  -H 'X-ClickHouse-Database: crawler3' \
  -H 'Authorization: Basic YXBpOg==' \
  -d 'SELECT getAhrefsURLFromUnparsed(src_unparsed) AS found_url, ifNull(toUnixTimestamp(download_stamp), 0) AS crawl_time, ifNull(toUnixTimestamp(props_url_first_seen), 0) AS first_indexed_time, download_http_code AS http_code, src_unparsed AS src_unparsed, src_root_hash AS src_root_hash, history_drop_reason AS history_drop_reason, meta_title AS meta_title, meta_descriptions AS meta_descriptions, attrs_boilerpipe_text AS attrs_boilerpipe_text, attrs_markdown AS attrs_markdown, attrs_readable_markdown AS attrs_readable_markdown, meta_canonical AS meta_canonical FROM crawler3.page_info_local FINAL PREWHERE (src_root_hash, src_unparsed) IN ((getAhrefsRootHashFromUnparsed(getAhrefsUnparsedNoserviceFromURL(\'https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module\')), getAhrefsUnparsedNoserviceFromURL(\'https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module\'))) FORMAT JSONEachRow'

Response:

{"found_url":"https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module","crawl_time":1775670279,"first_indexed_time":0,"http_code":200,"src_unparsed":"com,stackoverflow!\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module s443","src_root_hash":"714406497480128969","history_drop_reason":null,"meta_title":"package - Absolute vs. explicit relative import of Python module - Stack Overflow","meta_descriptions":[],"attrs_boilerpipe_text":"Python relative imports are no longer strongly discouraged, but using absolute_import is strongly suggested in that case.\nPlease see\nthis discussion\nciting Guido himself:\n\"Isn't this mostly historical? Until the new relative-import syntax\n  was implemented there were various problems with relative imports. The\n  short-term solution was to recommend not using them. The long-term\n  solution was to implement an unambiguous syntax. Now it is time to\n  withdraw the anti-recommendation. Of course, without going overboard\n  -- I still find them an acquired taste; but they have their place.\"\nThe OP correctly links the\nPEP 328\nthat says:\nSeveral use cases were presented, the most important of which is being\n  able to rearrange the structure of large packages without having to\n  edit sub-packages. In addition, a module inside a package can't easily\n  import itself without relative imports.\nAlso see almost duplicate question\nWhen or why to use relative imports in Python\nOf course it still stands as a matter of taste. While it's easier to move code around with relative imports, that might also unexpectedly break things; and renaming the imports is not that difficult.\nTo force the new behaviour from PEP 328 use:\nfrom\n__future__\nimport\nabsolute_import\nIn this case, implicit relative import will no longer be possible (eg.\nimport localfile\nwill not work anymore, only\nfrom . import localfile\n). For clean and future proof behaviour, using absolute_import is advisable.\nAn important caveat is that because of\nPEP 338\nand\nPEP 366\n, relative imports require the python file to be imported as a module - you cannot execute a file.py that has a relative import or you'll get a\nValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package\n.\nThis limitation should be taken into account when evaluating the best approach. Guido is against running scripts from a module in any case:\nI'm -1 on this and on any other proposed twiddlings of the __main__ machinery. \n  The only use case seems to be running scripts that happen to be living inside a module's directory, which I've always seen as an antipattern. \n  To make me change my mind you'd have to convince me that it isn't.\nExhaustive discussions on the matter can be found on SO; re. Python 3 this is quite comprehensive:\nRelative imports in Python 3","attrs_markdown":"# ![site logo](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/Content\/Img\/SE-logo75.png)\nBy clicking “Sign up”, you agree to our [terms of service](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/legal\/terms-of-service\/public) and acknowledge you have read our [privacy policy](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/legal\/privacy-policy).\n\n# OR\n\nAlready have an account? [Log in](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/login)\n\n[Skip to main content](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#content)\n\n[Stack Overflow](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/)\n\n1. [About](https:\/\/stackoverflow.co\/)\n2. Products\n3. [For Teams](https:\/\/stackoverflow.co\/internal\/)\n\n1. 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[Learn more](https:\/\/stackoverflow.co\/internal\/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=stackoverflow-community&utm_campaign=side-bar&utm_content=explore-teams-compact)\n\n##### Collectives™ on Stack Overflow\nFind centralized, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most.\n\n[Learn more about Collectives](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/collectives)\n\n**Stack Internal**\n\nKnowledge at work\n\nBring the best of human thought and AI automation together at your work.\n\n[Explore Stack Internal](https:\/\/stackoverflow.co\/internal\/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=stackoverflow-community&utm_campaign=side-bar&utm_content=explore-teams-compact-popover)\n\n# [Absolute vs. explicit relative import of Python module](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module)\n[Ask Question](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/ask)\n\nAsked\n\n15 years, 2 months ago\n\nModified [5 years, 5 months ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module?lastactivity \"2020-08-15 05:31:00Z\")\n\nViewed 92k times\n\nThis question shows research effort; it is useful and clear\n\n124\n\nSave this question.\n\nShow activity on this post.\n\nI'm wondering about the preferred way to import packages in a Python application. I have a package structure like this:\n```\nCopy\n```\n`project.app1.views` imports `project.app1.models` and `project.app2.models`. There are two ways to do this that come to mind.\n\nWith absolute imports:\n```\nCopy\n```\nor with explicit relative imports, as introduced in [Python 2.5 with PEP 328](http:\/\/docs.python.org\/whatsnew\/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports):\n```\nCopy\n```\nWhat is the most pythonic way to do this?\n\n- [python](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/tagged\/python \"show questions tagged 'python'\")\n- [package](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/tagged\/package \"show questions tagged 'package'\")\n- [python-import](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/tagged\/python-import \"show questions tagged 'python-import'\")\n\n[Share](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/q\/4209641 \"Short permalink to this question\")\n\nShare a link to this question\n\nCopy link\n\n[CC BY-SA 4.0](https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/4.0\/ \"The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 4.0\")\n\n[Improve this question](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/4209641\/edit)\n\nFollow\n\nFollow this question to receive notifications\n\n[edited Nov 4, 2019 at 9:04](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/4209641\/revisions \"show all edits to this post\")\n\nasked Nov 17, 2010 at 22:07\n\n[![Daniel Hepper's user avatar](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2826aed4813bf3e2b3eff1eb075d387a?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/211960\/daniel-hepper)\n\n[Daniel Hepper](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/211960\/daniel-hepper)\n\n30\\.2k1010 gold badges7878 silver badges7979 bronze badges\n\n0\n\n[Add a comment](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module \"Use comments to ask for more information or suggest improvements. Avoid answering questions in comments.\")   \\|\n\n## 3 Answers 3\nSorted by:\n\n[Reset to default](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module?answertab=scoredesc#tab-top)\n\nThis answer is useful\n\n156\n\nSave this answer.\n\nShow activity on this post.\n\nPython relative imports are no longer strongly discouraged, but using absolute\\_import is strongly suggested in that case.\n\nPlease see [this discussion](http:\/\/bugs.python.org\/issue10031) citing Guido himself:\n\n> \"Isn't this mostly historical? Until the new relative-import syntax was implemented there were various problems with relative imports. The short-term solution was to recommend not using them. The long-term solution was to implement an unambiguous syntax. Now it is time to withdraw the anti-recommendation. Of course, without going overboard -- I still find them an acquired taste; but they have their place.\"\n\nThe OP correctly links the [PEP 328](http:\/\/www.python.org\/dev\/peps\/pep-0328\/#rationale-for-relative-imports) that says:\n\n> Several use cases were presented, the most important of which is being able to rearrange the structure of large packages without having to edit sub-packages. In addition, a module inside a package can't easily import itself without relative imports.\n\nAlso see almost duplicate question [When or why to use relative imports in Python](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/12738889\/when-or-why-to-use-relative-imports-in-python)\n\nOf course it still stands as a matter of taste. While it's easier to move code around with relative imports, that might also unexpectedly break things; and renaming the imports is not that difficult.\n\nTo force the new behaviour from PEP 328 use:\n```\nCopyfrom __future__ import absolute_import\n```\nIn this case, implicit relative import will no longer be possible (eg. `import localfile` will not work anymore, only `from . import localfile`). For clean and future proof behaviour, using absolute\\_import is advisable.\n\nAn important caveat is that because of [PEP 338](http:\/\/www.python.org\/dev\/peps\/pep-0338) and [PEP 366](http:\/\/www.python.org\/dev\/peps\/pep-0366), relative imports require the python file to be imported as a module - you cannot execute a file.py that has a relative import or you'll get a `ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package`.\n\nThis limitation should be taken into account when evaluating the best approach. Guido is against running scripts from a module in any case:\n\n> I'm -1 on this and on any other proposed twiddlings of the \\_\\_main\\_\\_ machinery. The only use case seems to be running scripts that happen to be living inside a module's directory, which I've always seen as an antipattern. To make me change my mind you'd have to convince me that it isn't.\n\nExhaustive discussions on the matter can be found on SO; re. Python 3 this is quite comprehensive:\n\n- [Relative imports in Python 3](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/16981921\/relative-imports-in-python-3)\n\n[Share](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/a\/16748366 \"Short permalink to this answer\")\n\nShare a link to this answer\n\nCopy link\n\n[CC BY-SA 3.0](https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/3.0\/ \"The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 3.0\")\n\n[Improve this answer](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/16748366\/edit)\n\nFollow\n\nFollow this answer to receive notifications\n\n[edited May 23, 2017 at 12:26](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/16748366\/revisions \"show all edits to this post\")\n\n[![Community's user avatar](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a007be5a61f6aa8f3e85ae2fc18dd66e?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/-1\/community)\n\n[Community](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/-1\/community)Bot\n\n111 silver badge\n\nanswered May 25, 2013 at 9:54\n\n[![Stefano's user avatar](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b144be6dfb30fbc4956be78291754551?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/422670\/stefano)\n\n[Stefano](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/422670\/stefano)\n\n18\\.7k1313 gold badges6767 silver badges7979 bronze badges\n\nSign up to request clarification or add additional context in comments.\n\n## 7 Comments\nAdd a comment\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/bc3cbbdadcf7485288e502d084820c32?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/232485\/jabba)\n\nJabba\n\n[Jabba](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/232485\/jabba)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment31375229_16748366)\n\nGuido wrote that in 2010 and it's still in the PEP? How can we trust PEPs if they are so outdated?\n\n2014-01-03T11:45:49.54Z+00:00\n\n13\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/a07907d1d5962d947d1a414362d4331c?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/230884\/cpplearner)\n\nCppLearner\n\n[CppLearner](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/230884\/cpplearner)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment36923453_16748366)\n\nPEP are like US amendments in the sense that you can amend things. There are lot of rejected PEPS too. PEPs are proposals. They can be accepted, rejected or become obsolete which often means new PEP. PEP 8 is a style guide so it can be modified in place.\n\n2014-05-31T02:40:20.17Z+00:00\n\n6\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/41918ea59bc753ab7e6b58a5f3dc2973?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/2078678\/matiascelasco)\n\nmatiascelasco\n\n[matiascelasco](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/2078678\/matiascelasco)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment42995675_16748366)\n\nI am confused about the \"a module inside a package can't easily import itself... \" part. I had never heard about modules importing themselves before.\n\n2014-12-03T00:06:40.957Z+00:00\n\n3\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/b144be6dfb30fbc4956be78291754551?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/422670\/stefano)\n\nStefano\n\n[Stefano](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/422670\/stefano)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment43022950_16748366)\n\nOne possible example @matiascelasco : if you have foo\/bar.py and foo\/baz.py but also baz.py somewhere else. If you want to import foo.baz from bar you might want to be sure of what you are importing, eg. `import .baz` - this is just one simplistic of many similar situations described in the PEP though.\n\n2014-12-03T16:41:58.003Z+00:00\n\n3\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/i.sstatic.net\/T0jno.png?s=64)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/341744\/ninmonkey)\n\nninMonkey\n\n[ninMonkey](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/341744\/ninmonkey)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment52958026_16748366)\n\nYour answer doesn't clearly distinguish the change in allowing them. Implicit relative imports should never be used, but explicit relative imports are ok to use. Implicit relative has been removed from Python3.\n\n2015-09-13T15:04:26.243Z+00:00\n\n0\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\nAdd a comment\n\n\\|\n\nShow 2 more comments\n\nThis answer is useful\n\n69\n\nSave this answer.\n\nShow activity on this post.\n\nAbsolute imports. From PEP 8:\n\n> Relative imports for intra-package imports are highly discouraged. Always use the absolute package path for all imports. Even now that PEP 328 \\[7\\] is fully implemented in Python 2.5, its style of explicit relative imports is actively discouraged; absolute imports are more portable and usually more readable.\n\nExplicit relative imports are a nice language feature (I guess), but they're not nearly as explicit as absolute imports. The more readable form is:\n```\nCopy\n```\nespecially if you import several different namespaces. If you look at some well written projects\/tutorials that include imports from within packages, they usually follow this style.\n\nThe few extra keystrokes you take to be more explicit will save others (and perhaps you) plenty of time in the future when they're trying to figure out your namespace (especially if you migrate to 3.x, in which some of the package names have changed).\n\n[Share](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/a\/4209771 \"Short permalink to this answer\")\n\nShare a link to this answer\n\nCopy link\n\n[CC BY-SA 2.5](https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/2.5\/ \"The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 2.5\")\n\n[Improve this answer](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/4209771\/edit)\n\nFollow\n\nFollow this answer to receive notifications\n\n[edited Aug 15, 2020 at 5:31](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/4209771\/revisions \"show all edits to this post\")\n\n[![Patrick Mevzek's user avatar](https:\/\/i.sstatic.net\/yq4cG.jpg?s=64)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/6368697\/patrick-mevzek)\n\n[Patrick Mevzek](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/6368697\/patrick-mevzek)\n\n12\\.9k1717 gold badges4646 silver badges6262 bronze badges\n\nanswered Nov 17, 2010 at 22:22\n\n[![Rafe Kettler's user avatar](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/45aaf2885832e62ad4864782daa914f9?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/399815\/rafe-kettler)\n\n[Rafe Kettler](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/399815\/rafe-kettler)\n\n77\\.2k2121 gold badges161161 silver badges152152 bronze badges\n\n## 10 Comments\nAdd a comment\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2639bbcfac32701e7efc6eeffec5a489?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG&f=y&so-version=2)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/86643\/denis)\n\ndenis\n\n[denis](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/86643\/denis)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment5077476_4209771)\n\n@Rafe, \"look at some well written projects ...\" any suggestions ?\n\n2011-01-06T17:32:21.803Z+00:00\n\n1\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/45aaf2885832e62ad4864782daa914f9?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/399815\/rafe-kettler)\n\nRafe Kettler\n\n[Rafe Kettler](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/399815\/rafe-kettler)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment5077725_4209771)\n\n@Denis: Rietveld is Guido van Rossum's own project, so I'd imagine that'd be a good place to look ([code.google.com\/p\/rietveld](http:\/\/code.google.com\/p\/rietveld\/)). The Python standard library isn't so great, a lot of that code doesn't follow conventions.\n\n2011-01-06T17:48:53.173Z+00:00\n\n0\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/424a8f03889e3ffbf9ed57adb1fc41cc?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/85360\/brandon-rhodes)\n\nBrandon Rhodes\n\n[Brandon Rhodes](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/85360\/brandon-rhodes)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment6685896_4209771)\n\n@Rafe: that part of PEP-8 is outdated, according to Guido. [mail.python.org\/pipermail\/python-dev\/2010-October\/104476.html](http:\/\/mail.python.org\/pipermail\/python-dev\/2010-October\/104476.html)\n\n2011-04-28T20:52:35.417Z+00:00\n\n74\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/i.sstatic.net\/CcKRX.jpg?s=64)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/2073595\/dano)\n\ndano\n\n[dano](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/2073595\/dano)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment39033523_4209771)\n\nThat statement is no longer in PEP-8 at all now. It now states absolute imports are recommended, but relative imports are an acceptable alternative.\n\n2014-08-01T18:33:12.693Z+00:00\n\n16\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/78d44a79f724bc784792b49f78769d3a?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/143397\/davida)\n\ndavidA\n\n[davidA](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/143397\/davida)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment72181159_4209771)\n\nThe problem I have with absolute imports is when using a package within another package. In my case, it's present as a git submodule. In this case, although I can import the top-level package, any packages below this one cannot be imported because they fail to find their own modules with absolute imports. Whereas if I use relative imports at this bottom level, it all just works.\n\n2017-03-01T02:40:32.677Z+00:00\n\n7\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\nAdd a comment\n\n\\|\n\nShow 5 more comments\n\nThis answer is useful\n\n51\n\nSave this answer.\n\nShow activity on this post.\n\nRelative imports not only leave you free to rename your package later without changing dozens of internal imports, but I have also had success with them in solving certain problems involving things like circular imports or namespace packages, because they do not send Python \"back to the top\" to start the search for the next module all over again from the top-level namespace.\n\n[Share](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/a\/4209804 \"Short permalink to this answer\")\n\nShare a link to this answer\n\nCopy link\n\n[CC BY-SA 2.5](https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/2.5\/ \"The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 2.5\")\n\n[Improve this answer](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/posts\/4209804\/edit)\n\nFollow\n\nFollow this answer to receive notifications\n\nanswered Nov 17, 2010 at 22:25\n\n[![Brandon Rhodes's user avatar](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/424a8f03889e3ffbf9ed57adb1fc41cc?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/85360\/brandon-rhodes)\n\n[Brandon Rhodes](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/85360\/brandon-rhodes)\n\n91\\.1k1616 gold badges110110 silver badges149149 bronze badges\n\n## 2 Comments\nAdd a comment\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/78d44a79f724bc784792b49f78769d3a?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/143397\/davida)\n\ndavidA\n\n[davidA](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/143397\/davida)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment72218609_4209804)\n\n@RafeKettler can you explain how you would use absolute imports in a package that is itself included within another package? The absolute imports will fail within the inner package because they don't know about the new top level. Relative imports continue to work. One could probably argue that the package shouldn't be nested inside another in the first place, but some code is meant to be reusable and this happens a lot. A lot of reused code isn't packaged for the public and therefore isn't provided as a separate package so ad-hoc methods such as VCS import\/submodules end up being used instead\n\n2017-03-01T20:30:05.82Z+00:00\n\n2\n\nReply\n\n- Copy link\n\n[![](https:\/\/www.gravatar.com\/avatar\/98a347823cd1db90af884b227a29c29e?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/582917\/cmcdragonkai)\n\nCMCDragonkai\n\n[CMCDragonkai](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/users\/582917\/cmcdragonkai)\n\n[Over a year ago](https:\/\/stackoverflow.com\/questions\/4209641\/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment87272981_4209804)\n\n@meowsqueak I agree, some packages are not easily installable (they are not on pip, you don't want to use `python setup.py install` or `python setup.py develop` for whatever reason), in those cases I fork the source code and add it as a git submodule. When those packages use absolute imports on their own package name, their imports fail. The only solution is to use explicit relative imports. 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Boilerpipe Text	Python relative imports are no longer strongly discouraged, but using absolute_import is strongly suggested in that case. Please see this discussion citing Guido himself: "Isn't this mostly historical? Until the new relative-import syntax was implemented there were various problems with relative imports. The short-term solution was to recommend not using them. The long-term solution was to implement an unambiguous syntax. Now it is time to withdraw the anti-recommendation. Of course, without going overboard -- I still find them an acquired taste; but they have their place." The OP correctly links the PEP 328 that says: Several use cases were presented, the most important of which is being able to rearrange the structure of large packages without having to edit sub-packages. In addition, a module inside a package can't easily import itself without relative imports. Also see almost duplicate question When or why to use relative imports in Python Of course it still stands as a matter of taste. While it's easier to move code around with relative imports, that might also unexpectedly break things; and renaming the imports is not that difficult. To force the new behaviour from PEP 328 use: from __future__ import absolute_import In this case, implicit relative import will no longer be possible (eg. import localfile will not work anymore, only from . import localfile ). For clean and future proof behaviour, using absolute_import is advisable. An important caveat is that because of PEP 338 and PEP 366 , relative imports require the python file to be imported as a module - you cannot execute a file.py that has a relative import or you'll get a ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package . This limitation should be taken into account when evaluating the best approach. Guido is against running scripts from a module in any case: I'm -1 on this and on any other proposed twiddlings of the __main__ machinery. The only use case seems to be running scripts that happen to be living inside a module's directory, which I've always seen as an antipattern. To make me change my mind you'd have to convince me that it isn't. Exhaustive discussions on the matter can be found on SO; re. Python 3 this is quite comprehensive: Relative imports in Python 3
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[Explore Stack Internal](https://stackoverflow.co/internal/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=stackoverflow-community&utm_campaign=side-bar&utm_content=explore-teams-compact-popover) # [Absolute vs. explicit relative import of Python module](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module) [Ask Question](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/ask) Asked 15 years, 2 months ago Modified [5 years, 5 months ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module?lastactivity "2020-08-15 05:31:00Z") Viewed 92k times This question shows research effort; it is useful and clear 124 Save this question. Show activity on this post. I'm wondering about the preferred way to import packages in a Python application. I have a package structure like this: ``` Copy ``` `project.app1.views` imports `project.app1.models` and `project.app2.models`. There are two ways to do this that come to mind. With absolute imports: ``` Copy ``` or with explicit relative imports, as introduced in [Python 2.5 with PEP 328](http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-328-absolute-and-relative-imports): ``` Copy ``` What is the most pythonic way to do this? - [python](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/python "show questions tagged 'python'") - [package](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/package "show questions tagged 'package'") - [python-import](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/python-import "show questions tagged 'python-import'") [Share](https://stackoverflow.com/q/4209641 "Short permalink to this question") Share a link to this question Copy link [CC BY-SA 4.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ "The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 4.0") [Improve this question](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/4209641/edit) Follow Follow this question to receive notifications [edited Nov 4, 2019 at 9:04](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/4209641/revisions "show all edits to this post") asked Nov 17, 2010 at 22:07 [![Daniel Hepper's user avatar](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2826aed4813bf3e2b3eff1eb075d387a?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/211960/daniel-hepper) [Daniel Hepper](https://stackoverflow.com/users/211960/daniel-hepper) 30\.2k1010 gold badges7878 silver badges7979 bronze badges 0 [Add a comment](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module "Use comments to ask for more information or suggest improvements. Avoid answering questions in comments.") \\| ## 3 Answers 3 Sorted by: [Reset to default](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module?answertab=scoredesc#tab-top) This answer is useful 156 Save this answer. Show activity on this post. Python relative imports are no longer strongly discouraged, but using absolute\_import is strongly suggested in that case. Please see [this discussion](http://bugs.python.org/issue10031) citing Guido himself: > "Isn't this mostly historical? Until the new relative-import syntax was implemented there were various problems with relative imports. The short-term solution was to recommend not using them. The long-term solution was to implement an unambiguous syntax. Now it is time to withdraw the anti-recommendation. Of course, without going overboard -- I still find them an acquired taste; but they have their place." The OP correctly links the [PEP 328](http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/#rationale-for-relative-imports) that says: > Several use cases were presented, the most important of which is being able to rearrange the structure of large packages without having to edit sub-packages. In addition, a module inside a package can't easily import itself without relative imports. Also see almost duplicate question [When or why to use relative imports in Python](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12738889/when-or-why-to-use-relative-imports-in-python) Of course it still stands as a matter of taste. While it's easier to move code around with relative imports, that might also unexpectedly break things; and renaming the imports is not that difficult. To force the new behaviour from PEP 328 use: ``` Copyfrom __future__ import absolute_import ``` In this case, implicit relative import will no longer be possible (eg. `import localfile` will not work anymore, only `from . import localfile`). For clean and future proof behaviour, using absolute\_import is advisable. An important caveat is that because of [PEP 338](http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0338) and [PEP 366](http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366), relative imports require the python file to be imported as a module - you cannot execute a file.py that has a relative import or you'll get a `ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package`. This limitation should be taken into account when evaluating the best approach. Guido is against running scripts from a module in any case: > I'm -1 on this and on any other proposed twiddlings of the \_\_main\_\_ machinery. The only use case seems to be running scripts that happen to be living inside a module's directory, which I've always seen as an antipattern. To make me change my mind you'd have to convince me that it isn't. Exhaustive discussions on the matter can be found on SO; re. Python 3 this is quite comprehensive: - [Relative imports in Python 3](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16981921/relative-imports-in-python-3) [Share](https://stackoverflow.com/a/16748366 "Short permalink to this answer") Share a link to this answer Copy link [CC BY-SA 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ "The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 3.0") [Improve this answer](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/16748366/edit) Follow Follow this answer to receive notifications [edited May 23, 2017 at 12:26](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/16748366/revisions "show all edits to this post") [![Community's user avatar](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a007be5a61f6aa8f3e85ae2fc18dd66e?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/-1/community) [Community](https://stackoverflow.com/users/-1/community)Bot 111 silver badge answered May 25, 2013 at 9:54 [![Stefano's user avatar](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/b144be6dfb30fbc4956be78291754551?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/422670/stefano) [Stefano](https://stackoverflow.com/users/422670/stefano) 18\.7k1313 gold badges6767 silver badges7979 bronze badges Sign up to request clarification or add additional context in comments. ## 7 Comments Add a comment [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/bc3cbbdadcf7485288e502d084820c32?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/232485/jabba) Jabba [Jabba](https://stackoverflow.com/users/232485/jabba) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment31375229_16748366) Guido wrote that in 2010 and it's still in the PEP? How can we trust PEPs if they are so outdated? 2014-01-03T11:45:49.54Z+00:00 13 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/a07907d1d5962d947d1a414362d4331c?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/230884/cpplearner) CppLearner [CppLearner](https://stackoverflow.com/users/230884/cpplearner) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment36923453_16748366) PEP are like US amendments in the sense that you can amend things. There are lot of rejected PEPS too. PEPs are proposals. They can be accepted, rejected or become obsolete which often means new PEP. PEP 8 is a style guide so it can be modified in place. 2014-05-31T02:40:20.17Z+00:00 6 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/41918ea59bc753ab7e6b58a5f3dc2973?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/2078678/matiascelasco) matiascelasco [matiascelasco](https://stackoverflow.com/users/2078678/matiascelasco) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment42995675_16748366) I am confused about the "a module inside a package can't easily import itself... " part. I had never heard about modules importing themselves before. 2014-12-03T00:06:40.957Z+00:00 3 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/b144be6dfb30fbc4956be78291754551?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/422670/stefano) Stefano [Stefano](https://stackoverflow.com/users/422670/stefano) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment43022950_16748366) One possible example @matiascelasco : if you have foo/bar.py and foo/baz.py but also baz.py somewhere else. If you want to import foo.baz from bar you might want to be sure of what you are importing, eg. `import .baz` - this is just one simplistic of many similar situations described in the PEP though. 2014-12-03T16:41:58.003Z+00:00 3 Reply - Copy link [![](https://i.sstatic.net/T0jno.png?s=64)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/341744/ninmonkey) ninMonkey [ninMonkey](https://stackoverflow.com/users/341744/ninmonkey) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment52958026_16748366) Your answer doesn't clearly distinguish the change in allowing them. Implicit relative imports should never be used, but explicit relative imports are ok to use. Implicit relative has been removed from Python3. 2015-09-13T15:04:26.243Z+00:00 0 Reply - Copy link Add a comment \\| Show 2 more comments This answer is useful 69 Save this answer. Show activity on this post. Absolute imports. From PEP 8: > Relative imports for intra-package imports are highly discouraged. Always use the absolute package path for all imports. Even now that PEP 328 \[7\] is fully implemented in Python 2.5, its style of explicit relative imports is actively discouraged; absolute imports are more portable and usually more readable. Explicit relative imports are a nice language feature (I guess), but they're not nearly as explicit as absolute imports. The more readable form is: ``` Copy ``` especially if you import several different namespaces. If you look at some well written projects/tutorials that include imports from within packages, they usually follow this style. The few extra keystrokes you take to be more explicit will save others (and perhaps you) plenty of time in the future when they're trying to figure out your namespace (especially if you migrate to 3.x, in which some of the package names have changed). [Share](https://stackoverflow.com/a/4209771 "Short permalink to this answer") Share a link to this answer Copy link [CC BY-SA 2.5](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ "The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 2.5") [Improve this answer](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/4209771/edit) Follow Follow this answer to receive notifications [edited Aug 15, 2020 at 5:31](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/4209771/revisions "show all edits to this post") [![Patrick Mevzek's user avatar](https://i.sstatic.net/yq4cG.jpg?s=64)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/6368697/patrick-mevzek) [Patrick Mevzek](https://stackoverflow.com/users/6368697/patrick-mevzek) 12\.9k1717 gold badges4646 silver badges6262 bronze badges answered Nov 17, 2010 at 22:22 [![Rafe Kettler's user avatar](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/45aaf2885832e62ad4864782daa914f9?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/399815/rafe-kettler) [Rafe Kettler](https://stackoverflow.com/users/399815/rafe-kettler) 77\.2k2121 gold badges161161 silver badges152152 bronze badges ## 10 Comments Add a comment [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2639bbcfac32701e7efc6eeffec5a489?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG&f=y&so-version=2)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/86643/denis) denis [denis](https://stackoverflow.com/users/86643/denis) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment5077476_4209771) @Rafe, "look at some well written projects ..." any suggestions ? 2011-01-06T17:32:21.803Z+00:00 1 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/45aaf2885832e62ad4864782daa914f9?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/399815/rafe-kettler) Rafe Kettler [Rafe Kettler](https://stackoverflow.com/users/399815/rafe-kettler) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment5077725_4209771) @Denis: Rietveld is Guido van Rossum's own project, so I'd imagine that'd be a good place to look ([code.google.com/p/rietveld](http://code.google.com/p/rietveld/)). The Python standard library isn't so great, a lot of that code doesn't follow conventions. 2011-01-06T17:48:53.173Z+00:00 0 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/424a8f03889e3ffbf9ed57adb1fc41cc?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/85360/brandon-rhodes) Brandon Rhodes [Brandon Rhodes](https://stackoverflow.com/users/85360/brandon-rhodes) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment6685896_4209771) @Rafe: that part of PEP-8 is outdated, according to Guido. [mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-October/104476.html](http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2010-October/104476.html) 2011-04-28T20:52:35.417Z+00:00 74 Reply - Copy link [![](https://i.sstatic.net/CcKRX.jpg?s=64)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/2073595/dano) dano [dano](https://stackoverflow.com/users/2073595/dano) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment39033523_4209771) That statement is no longer in PEP-8 at all now. It now states absolute imports are recommended, but relative imports are an acceptable alternative. 2014-08-01T18:33:12.693Z+00:00 16 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/78d44a79f724bc784792b49f78769d3a?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/143397/davida) davidA [davidA](https://stackoverflow.com/users/143397/davida) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment72181159_4209771) The problem I have with absolute imports is when using a package within another package. In my case, it's present as a git submodule. In this case, although I can import the top-level package, any packages below this one cannot be imported because they fail to find their own modules with absolute imports. Whereas if I use relative imports at this bottom level, it all just works. 2017-03-01T02:40:32.677Z+00:00 7 Reply - Copy link Add a comment \\| Show 5 more comments This answer is useful 51 Save this answer. Show activity on this post. Relative imports not only leave you free to rename your package later without changing dozens of internal imports, but I have also had success with them in solving certain problems involving things like circular imports or namespace packages, because they do not send Python "back to the top" to start the search for the next module all over again from the top-level namespace. [Share](https://stackoverflow.com/a/4209804 "Short permalink to this answer") Share a link to this answer Copy link [CC BY-SA 2.5](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ "The current license for this post: CC BY-SA 2.5") [Improve this answer](https://stackoverflow.com/posts/4209804/edit) Follow Follow this answer to receive notifications answered Nov 17, 2010 at 22:25 [![Brandon Rhodes's user avatar](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/424a8f03889e3ffbf9ed57adb1fc41cc?s=64&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/85360/brandon-rhodes) [Brandon Rhodes](https://stackoverflow.com/users/85360/brandon-rhodes) 91\.1k1616 gold badges110110 silver badges149149 bronze badges ## 2 Comments Add a comment [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/78d44a79f724bc784792b49f78769d3a?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/143397/davida) davidA [davidA](https://stackoverflow.com/users/143397/davida) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment72218609_4209804) @RafeKettler can you explain how you would use absolute imports in a package that is itself included within another package? The absolute imports will fail within the inner package because they don't know about the new top level. Relative imports continue to work. One could probably argue that the package shouldn't be nested inside another in the first place, but some code is meant to be reusable and this happens a lot. A lot of reused code isn't packaged for the public and therefore isn't provided as a separate package so ad-hoc methods such as VCS import/submodules end up being used instead 2017-03-01T20:30:05.82Z+00:00 2 Reply - Copy link [![](https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/98a347823cd1db90af884b227a29c29e?s=48&d=identicon&r=PG)](https://stackoverflow.com/users/582917/cmcdragonkai) CMCDragonkai [CMCDragonkai](https://stackoverflow.com/users/582917/cmcdragonkai) [Over a year ago](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4209641/absolute-vs-explicit-relative-import-of-python-module#comment87272981_4209804) @meowsqueak I agree, some packages are not easily installable (they are not on pip, you don't want to use `python setup.py install` or `python setup.py develop` for whatever reason), in those cases I fork the source code and add it as a git submodule. When those packages use absolute imports on their own package name, their imports fail. The only solution is to use explicit relative imports. That is what should be encouraged I think. 2018-05-02T05:20:55.473Z+00:00 4 Reply - Copy link Start asking to get answers Find the answer to your question by asking. 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