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[Explore Stack Internal](https://stackoverflow.co/internal/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=english-community&utm_campaign=side-bar&utm_content=explore-teams-compact-popover) # [Does the phrase "locker room talk" have precedent?](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent) [Ask Question](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/ask) Asked 9 years, 4 months ago Modified [8 years, 11 months ago](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent?lastactivity "2017-02-18 13:20:43Z") Viewed 699 times 4 A video from 2005 [(transcript)](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html) was recently released wherein Donald Trump made vulgar comments about women. In his effort to downplay/apologize for his remarks, [he has repeatedly labeled](http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/09/politics/donald-trump-locker-room-talk-presidential-debate-2016-election/) his comments as "locker room talk" or "locker room banter". Articles, [like one from the NYTimes](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/sports/what-exactly-is-locker-room-talk-let-an-expert-explain.html), have since tried to explain what "locker-room talk" is, but these are from the perspective of what is literally said in a guys' locker room--as opposed to addressing the phrase from an English-language usage perspective. **Does the phrase "locker room talk" have any precedent? If so, has it historically been used to mean what Donald Trump is using it to mean? And what is its history?** - [etymology](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/etymology "show questions tagged 'etymology'") - [phrase-meaning](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/phrase-meaning "show questions tagged 'phrase-meaning'") - [phrase-usage](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/phrase-usage "show questions tagged 'phrase-usage'") - [trumpism](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/trumpism "show questions tagged 'trumpism'") [Share](https://english.stackexchange.com/q/352882 "Short permalink to this question") [Improve this question](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/352882/edit) Follow [edited Feb 18, 2017 at 12:17](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/352882/revisions "show all edits to this post") [](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/44619/mari-lou-a) [Mari-Lou A](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/44619/mari-lou-a) 95\.6k100100 gold badges332332 silver badges614614 bronze badges asked Oct 11, 2016 at 19:30 [](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/80682/spacetyper) [spacetyper](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/80682/spacetyper) 2,73766 gold badges2121 silver badges2626 bronze badges 7 - 2 I think to answer your second question, we’d have to start out by defining what exactly *Trump* is using it to mean. To the best of my knowledge, he is simply using it in the literal sense also used in the NYT article: stuff that guys talk about in locker rooms when there’s lots of testosterone and competitiveness floating about and they know there will be no women present. He’s not using it as a term to mean something else; he just seems to believe guys routinely do things like brag about sexually assaulting women in locker rooms, which many have said (correctly, one hopes) is not the case. Janus Bahs Jacquet – [Janus Bahs Jacquet](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/47827/janus-bahs-jacquet "33,068 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:36:58 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:36 - I don't know when [lockerroomtalk.com](http://www.lockerroomtalk.com/) was set up, but I bet they've had a bit more traffic than normal in the last few days. FumbleFingers – [FumbleFingers](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/2637/fumblefingers "143,591 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:37:53 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:37 - In Britain we rarely use the term *locker-room*. It is either *changing room* (Rugby) or *dressing room* (football). How best to describe Trump's overheard conversation, I've no idea. But, as one who has lived an unsheltered life, I can honestly say that I have never before heard a man boast of having indecently assaulted a woman, claiming immunity to sanction on the basis of his own stardom. Never mind "locker room" , it is something one might only expect to hear from those "locked in a room"\! WS2 – [WS2](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/53966/ws2 "65,113 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:43:58 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:43 - 1 There has actually been a fair amount of [academic study of "locker room talk"](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=locker+room+talk&hl=en&as_sdt=0,16). I would not say that this literature helps Trump's case. 1006a – [1006a](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/177853/1006a "23,074 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:53:52 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:53 - 1 What some consider *locker room talk* and what Trump (or his staff) does may well differ. I have participated in many a macho environment— all-boys high school, swim team, college fraternity, etc.— but like WS2, *never* was open sexual assault acceptable, much less something brag about. We would have beaten the daylights out of anyone who did. choster – [choster](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/16052/choster "43,719 reputation") 2016-10-11 21:41:30 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 21:41 \| [Show **2** more comments](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent "Expand to show all comments on this post") ## 2 Answers 2 Sorted by: [Reset to default](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent?answertab=scoredesc#tab-top) 6 ***[Locker-room](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/locker-room)*** is used as an adjective to refer to explicit sexual talk. This usage appears to be from the '40s. > - of, characteristic of, or suitable to conversation in a locker room; earthy or sexually explicit: *locker-room humor.* [Ngram](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Locker%20room%20talk&year_start=1950&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CLocker%20room%20talk%3B%2Cc0) shows usages of the expression "locker-room talk" from recent decades: From [The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/28/theater/stage-at-the-alvin-patent-leather-shoes.html): > - 28 mag 1982 - The hero (Russ Thacker) finally learns that ***sex isn't just locker-room talk*** but a means ''to create another human life.'' The heroine (Maureen Moore), prodded on by a spiritual adviser akin to the Mother Superior in '' The Sound of Music,'' decides to join a convent. The finale is titled ''Thank God.'' It would be unfair to say that ... From [The Gender Line](https://books.google.it/books?id=_4qHVrCsh80C&pg=PA131&dq=%22locker%20room%20talk%22&hl=it&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiE4fvmwdPPAhWDtRQKHfnZDK0Q6AEIOjAF#v=onepage&q=%22locker%20room%20talk%22&f=false) 1998: > - ***The do-me feminists are choosing locker room talk to shift discussion from the failures of men to the failures of feminism***, from the paradigm of sexual abuse to the paradigm of sexual pleasure. [Share](https://english.stackexchange.com/a/352887 "Short permalink to this answer") [Improve this answer](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/352887/edit) Follow [edited Oct 11, 2016 at 19:54](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/352887/revisions "show all edits to this post") answered Oct 11, 2016 at 19:36 user66974 3 - I'd be really interested to see one of the original examples of its usage in this context. I haven't been able to find where the info comes from that dates it back to the 40s. spacetyper – [spacetyper](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/80682/spacetyper "2,737 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:53:45 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:53 - 2 @spacetyper, the OED's earliest attestations are both from the 1940s, one from a Texas newspaper and one from the entertainment magazine *Billboard*. 1006a – [1006a](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/177853/1006a "23,074 reputation") 2016-10-11 19:57:44 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 19:57 - @spacetyper - Ngram starts finding credible uses in the [1970s](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=locker+room+talk&year_start=1900&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Clocker%20room%20talk%3B%2Cc0). Hot Licks – [Hot Licks](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/70861/hot-licks "27,747 reputation") 2016-10-11 22:52:40 +00:00 Commented Oct 11, 2016 at 22:52 [Add a comment](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent "Use comments to ask for more information or suggest improvements. Avoid comments like “+1” or “thanks”.") \| 2 From **Merriam-Webster**: (<https://www.merriam-webster.com/news-trend-watch/locker-room-20161009>) "'**Locker-Room' 'Locker-room talk' has been with us for a while** *** > Locker rooms have been with us since the middle of the 19th century, when they referred simply to rooms which had lockers and in which people changed their clothes. However, the word has also been used, for a considerable length of time, as an adjective, denoting things (especially talk) of a coarse or offensive nature. Lookups for 'locker-room' spiked after Trump said comments which seemed to described sexual assault as "locker-room talk." *Trump repeated his apology but downplayed the seriousness of his comments. "This was locker-room talk," he said. -Chris Megerian, Los Angeles Times, 9 Oct. 2016* > **The adjectival use of locker-room has been combined with talk since at least 1921:** In the July issue of the magazine Mr. Richards has two articles: one on the Bloomfield Hills Country Club, in which he sketches accurately and in a delightfully humorous way some of the locker-room talk that may be heard at any country club. -Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), 4 Sept.1921." *Here is the 'Ngram Viewer' graph of 'Locker room talk':* [](https://i.sstatic.net/iraTp.png) [Share](https://english.stackexchange.com/a/374289 "Short permalink to this answer") [Improve this answer](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/374289/edit) Follow [edited Feb 18, 2017 at 13:20](https://english.stackexchange.com/posts/374289/revisions "show all edits to this post") answered Feb 18, 2017 at 13:03 [](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/216308/mahmud-k-pukayoor) [mahmud k pukayoor](https://english.stackexchange.com/users/216308/mahmud-k-pukayoor) 8,56955 gold badges2424 silver badges3939 bronze badges [Add a comment](https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/352882/does-the-phrase-locker-room-talk-have-precedent "Use comments to ask for more information or suggest improvements. 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From **Merriam-Webster**: (<https://www.merriam-webster.com/news-trend-watch/locker-room-20161009>) "'**Locker-Room' 'Locker-room talk' has been with us for a while** *** > Locker rooms have been with us since the middle of the 19th century, when they referred simply to rooms which had lockers and in which people changed their clothes. However, the word has also been used, for a considerable length of time, as an adjective, denoting things (especially talk) of a coarse or offensive nature. Lookups for 'locker-room' spiked after Trump said comments which seemed to described sexual assault as "locker-room talk." *Trump repeated his apology but downplayed the seriousness of his comments. "This was locker-room talk," he said. -Chris Megerian, Los Angeles Times, 9 Oct. 2016* > **The adjectival use of locker-room has been combined with talk since at least 1921:** In the July issue of the magazine Mr. Richards has two articles: one on the Bloomfield Hills Country Club, in which he sketches accurately and in a delightfully humorous way some of the locker-room talk that may be heard at any country club. -Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, NY), 4 Sept.1921." *Here is the 'Ngram Viewer' graph of 'Locker room talk':* [](https://i.sstatic.net/iraTp.png)